Keeping It Authentic: An Interview with Daniel and Chelsey Casey

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If you watch many shows on the History Channel, you will likely recognize this week’s interviewee. Back in 2016, Daniel Casey, owner of Casey Arms in Romance, Arkansas, opened his shop doors to viewers and gave everyone a glimpse at his lifestyle and his business as a traditional blacksmith and gunsmith. Viewers watched Daniel recreate, repair, and build historically accurate weapons, everything from long rifles to museum-quality knives to cannons. He then appeared in season five of Forged in Fire.

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While Iron and Fire may have only lasted one season, the show's impact on the life of Daniel and his wife, Chelsey, is ongoing. Daniel was generous enough to talk with us about Casey Arms, his show Iron and Fire, and his appearance on Forged in Fire, as well as a little background on what he’s been up to lately. We were lucky enough to catch up with Chelsey, who also answered a few questions for us!

How a love of history spurred Daniel’s bladesmithing career

BRUTE de FORGE: Thank you so much, Daniel, for taking the time to talk to me. Let’s kick it off. How did you get into forging?

Daniel Casey: I always say it's because we didn't have television when I was younger. We didn’t get television until I was like sixteen years old. In turn, I was an avid reader, and I loved history—especially the westward progression and the Revolutionary War era. I was fascinated with the weapons that those guys carried. They won America with them and built a nation.

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So, at a very young age, I had a desire to start learning how to make these things. We went to the library at least once a week. My mom always tried to encourage us to read, so I would get every book I could on crafting and building knives and weapons of all kinds, and it just grew from there. I'm still lucky enough to do it now as a grown-up.

Daniel Casey, Armorer

BDF: What is the name of your forge?

DC: I named my shop Casey Arms. It’s my last name combined with what I do. I thought it was quick and easy. The majority of what I build is arms of some sort. I do gunsmithing as well, so I build traditional flintlock rifles and dueling pistols, along with blades and all kinds of other things.

BDF: And are you a full-time smith?

DC: Yes, I do it full-time. I love my life and my lifestyle. We've got a small homestead with a farm, plus all of my crafting. My wife does leather work. She makes all the sheaths and the holsters for my work as well as a wide variety of purses, jewelry, belts, wallets, and things like that. We both work from home, and it’s great, especially right now because our kids are home from school for the summer. We are super family oriented.

“I love my life and my lifestyle.”

A Family Affair

BDF: Chesley, I’m interested in the sheath and leatherwork. Can you tell me a little bit about how you got into that?

Chelsey Casey: For the longest time, I only did sheaths for Daniel because we would have an order, and he didn’t have time to make one himself. At first, I really didn't enjoy doing it because I didn't understand what I was doing. Honestly, I am not sure when exactly it clicked for me, but once it did, I dove in. I am always worried about messing up, though. Leather is expensive! I have learned that it is ok to mess up even if it feels like wasting money because each mistake is a lesson learned.

BDF: Looking over Etsy, your work is beautiful. Do you take custom orders as well?

CC: Yes, I absolutely take custom orders. I like them because each one is a challenge, and I learn a lot with each project I do.

DC: We are never just steady. We either have so much to do that we can hardly handle it, or we are slow and wish we could sell a knife. It's a roller coaster! It really is. It's also good to have other means of income if you can. I would absolutely agree with other bladesmiths that say that. This is a great thing to get into after you’re retired or for veterans looking for an outlet. It’s also great if you’re young and looking for a hobby, but doing it full-time can be a struggle.

BDF: Daniel, do you have a preference for bladesmithing versus gunsmithing?

DC: Nowadays, I just enjoy making new things. I like the challenge of working on something that I've never built before, so whether it's bladesmithing or gunsmithing, I want the challenge. But, if I had to choose, I would say that I prefer to build guns a little more.

BDF: Why is that? Just the challenge?

DC: It's a lot more rewarding. In the end, there's a big boom sound (laughing). They're also so much more involved. There are so many moving parts, and it's more of a challenge.

BDF: Are you self-taught, or did you have a mentor that taught you all this?

DC: Both, it’s about sixty-forty. When I was fifteen, my dad brought home a VHS tape from a friend he worked with, a gentleman in Kentucky named Hershel House. Hershel is a traditional gunsmith and bladesmith. After watching those VHS videos of him hammering out the parts to build rifles, I was immediately fascinated. I had already been trying to make blades and built a forge, but I never put two and two together; you could take bladesmithing a step further and build rifles, pistols, muskets, or shotguns.

The Importance of Historical Accuracy

BDF: After watching your show Iron and Fire, I know you put a lot of effort into ensuring everything you make is historically accurate. What goes into that?

DC: So, I teach classes, everything from basic bladesmithing to Damascus and tomahawks and things like that. I tell all my students that the more work you do with a hammer, the less work you have to do with a file. Anybody who's had to push a file for eight hours knows you don't want to do that.

“You could take bladesmithing a step further and build rifles, pistols, muskets, or shotguns.”

So, I try to get as close as possible to the finished product with a hammer. Then I do the rest with hand files and hand sanding. It comes down to hours of labor. But you also can't duplicate and finish with a grinder. You just can't do it.

BDF: Do you use historically accurate tools? Do you use any modern equipment?

DC: As much as possible, the tools I use are historically accurate. I usually hammer everything to at least seventy or eighty percent before I use a belt grinder. The grinder basically knocks the forge scale off the finished piece so my file can cut into the metal. The forge scale is so hard that it destroys a file. So, I do use the grinder for a very minuscule part of the effort.

Nowadays, I also have a 1912 Little Giant power hammer to stretch my Damascus billets, but I still hammer the blade to shape by hand with a hammer. I've only had the power hammer for about a year and a half. I'm still creating everything in a completely traditional way, but I'm saving my rotator cuff, which I’ve torn three times, and my arthritic elbows. It takes a lot of hammering to stretch a bullet from a chunk into a bar so that I can work with it.

Something really cool is that I work on a 175-pound Hay Budden Anvil that I inherited from my great-uncle. He inherited the anvil from the family farm, which has been in our family since 1835. My fifth great-grandfather, Samuel McGehee, was granted the land the farm was built on for his service as a lieutenant in the Virginia Militia during the Revolutionary War. Today the farm is still owned and occupied by my aunt.

Preserving the Traditions

BDF: Do you know if any of your other family members were blacksmiths?

DC: I believe they were blacksmiths of necessity more than anything. But there could have been a full-time blacksmith employed at the farm.

BDF: Obviously, using modern tools and equipment would be much easier and faster. Why do you choose to stick with the coal forge and authentic tools?

DC: Absolutely, it would be faster and easier. But, to me, I'm preserving traditions and methods that are on the brink of extinction. There are a lot of knife makers out there, but there aren't many bladesmiths. A bladesmith uses a hammer to shape the knife, and a knife maker gets a chunk of steel and grinds it until it looks like a knife. I am a bladesmith.

“After my class, they know how to do it the old way, so at least they have that knowledge if they need it.”

I tell everyone who comes here for a class that if you make a knife using these methods, you will sweat and work and file and hammer for three days straight for a little forge, fixed blade, skinning knife. Nobody realizes how much work goes into it when they show up. But when it’s over, I say, “You paid your dues. Now you know. Go buy all the equipment you want to.” After my class, they know how to do it the old way, so at least they have that knowledge if they need it.

BDF: Chelsey, what goes into making the leatherwork for his historically accurate weapons? Do you get artistic leeway, or does it have to look original? I feel like the sheath is like the cover of a book. Does that ever make you feel added pressure?

CC: Creativity-wise, it depends on the project. If it is meant to look old and original, I try to keep it along those lines. Daniel usually gives me an idea of what he is picturing, and then I try to make that come to life.

But yes, I feel so much pressure on all my projects! Daniel is very well known, and, as you said, the sheath is the first thing you see. I am always afraid my work does him no justice. He is really good at encouraging me, though. He always says I make his knives look better, “like icing on the cake.” I am harder on myself. I see every mistake or imperfection in my work.

The Impact of Reality Television

BDF: Like any true artist does! How do your customers find you?

DC: The TV show (Iron and Fire) did phenomenal things for us. Before the television show, I only did this part-time. I worked as a machinist and a welder, all kinds of things, before doing this full-time. But since the show, for going on a little over seven years, we've been able to do it full-time.

Most people find us through association with the show Iron and Fire. Then, I competed on Forged in Fire, which also got us some business. We try to stay active on social media and have our website caseyarms.com. I have also had the opportunity to interview with a couple of other magazines and websites. We did an episode with an online streaming television show on Carbon TV called Heartlandia So, these little things add up, and people find us.

BDF: It seems like a niche thing to need a long rifle duplicated or a historically accurate set of dueling pistols built. It doesn’t seem like something people can just Google.

DC: Honestly, some of the nicest things that I've gotten to build came after the show. People would say they saw the show and saw that I could build this or that, and they had no idea who to reach out to before to copy Grandpa's double barrel rifle or whatever it is.

But there's a group called the Contemporary Long Rifle Association, or the CLA. They cater to contemporary artists such as myself; knifemakers, rifle builders, pottery painting, and all the traditional arts. They have a big show in Kentucky every year, and before we had our television show, that's where I made a lot of contacts and got a lot of orders.

Balancing Historical Accuracy with Artistic License

BDF: When working on a project, how do you find the line between keeping the piece as authentic as possible and adding some flare that makes it yours? Is it a hard line to walk?

DC: I love historical pieces, and I've had opportunities in the past to view many collections of original knives, some dating back to the Revolutionary War, as well as rifles and swords and all sorts of weapons. I find the biggest struggle is being original because everything has been done in six different ways. So, when a customer contacts me, let's say they want a rifle and they're going to deer hunt with it. They live in Kentucky or North Carolina, Tennessee, or wherever. I'll tell them about the style of a rifle from the period that I specialize in, in their area, and suggest certain features on the rifle. Then I usually ask them for some symbolism from their life. Who are we building the rifle for? Were they a Boy Scout? Did they work for the railroad? Are they military? I try to fit some symbolism into the work.

“When people give me artistic freedom, I always try to give them more than they paid for because it’s more fun for me in the end.”

I always beg for artistic freedom because you have ideas as you build, and it's so much easier to go with them instead of asking for permission whenever I have an idea. When people give me artistic freedom, I always try to give them more than they paid for because it's more fun for me in the end.

BDF: Do you have a favorite era of history that you like to work from?

DC: The late 1700s to early 1800s is my favorite period for weapons. Especially rifles, dueling pistols, bear pistols, sword canes, and fighting knives. That era had classier lines, better curves, and more high-quality embellishments. With the Industrial Revolution, all of that degraded. Before that, craftsmen took great pride in their work

Daniel’s Favorite Projects

BDF: Do you have a favorite project that you've worked on?

DC: Too many. I got to build a rifle for a collector in Arkansas who gave me complete artistic freedom. He said, “I have money to leave to my kids, but I want to leave something they can't spend.” So, I had an amazing time building that rifle, carving, engraving, and adding inlay to it.

In the same breath, a gentleman brought me a double barrel over-under rifle that his great-grandfather used during the Civil War. I got to duplicate the original, and when there is so much history, and you've met the people whose family carried the piece, it is such a special thing.

BDF: Looking over your Etsy shop, there are a lot of Scottish-inspired items and items with thistles. What is the significance of those for you both?

CC: I am not Scottish, but Daniel’s family is. He has a huge interest in his heritage. We, Casey Arms, set up at the local Scottish Festivals, and Daniel does live demonstrations. We usually have a booth set up with all our custom items for people to see. That’s why I started making sporrans.

But the image of the thistle flower has been one of our favorites since I can remember. A lot of Daniel's past work has Scottish thistles.

Another Iron in the Fire

BDF: Let’s talk about your show, Iron and Fire. How did that come about?

DC: So, I’ve always been bad at self-advertising, but in 2013, Chelsey convinced me to contact our state newspaper. It's called the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, and they would do a center page on craftsmen in Arkansas. I reached out, and they ended up sending a young lady out to write an article about the shop for the paper.

About six months later, we got a random phone call and a voicemail on my phone. It said, “I'm the director of development for a production company. We’re looking to do a show about craftsmen in the Ozarks, and we are wondering if you would be interested?” It turned into a show from there. They came out and shot a pilot and were here for about three days. I think I forged some blades, and I had a rifle that I set up. We also shot off a cannon. Most of it was to entertain them a little bit, but we got a TV show out of it. It was a great experience.

BDF: How was it shooting that at your home? Did they follow you around like reality TV?

DC: We had a plan or format going into it. For instance, if we built a hog spear, we would have to finish it as part of an episode, and then we would have to use it. Now, you never know with a hunt what's going to happen, so at a certain point, it is what it is, but we would try to execute that process as efficiently as possible. It wasn’t always easy with the cameraman getting their multiple angles or saying, “I forgot to push record.”

“The blessing was that History Channel has ten million viewers, and it’s kept us in business for seven years and hopefully will continue.”

Production moved in like a Conex box and had an office here, an RV, and another box for storage. There were about twelve people on the crew here from seven in the morning to seven at night for two weeks. We shot two weeks on and one week off for almost nine months consecutively to film. It was quite a process. The one bad thing was that I was only fifty yards from my house, but I didn't get to see my family much during that time. Even though I was working with family members, I didn't get to see my wife and kids much because I was prepping for the next two weeks on the week off; I would be trying to get things halfway built for the show. But the blessing was that History Channel has ten million viewers, and it's kept us in business for seven years and hopefully will continue.

BDF: Would you say it is an accurate depiction of your everyday life?

DC: Yes and no. I mean, obviously, yes, in that I do build all of these types of projects. My nephew and my little brother have moved on to different careers of their own these days, so I work by myself now. The biggest thing is that we made it more exciting with the big family dinners and stuff like that. We do that, but it's not always in the front yard under a shade tree in the perfect setting. So yes, it was our real life, but we made it as nice-looking as possible.

BDF: What are your nephew and brother doing now?

DC: So, my brother is a full-time mechanic, and my nephew is an I.T. guy now. He has a beautiful family and has two little girls. We are proud of them!

Out of the Frying Pan and into Forged in Fire

BDF: That's awesome. Good for them! Did Iron and Fire lead to your appearance on Forged in Fire? Or did you have to apply for that like everyone else?

DC: In a way. A friend of mine, Lyle, competed on Forged in Fire. I cannot remember his season or episode, but he made an African spear. After he had competed, they contacted him, saying they were looking for more contestants, and he suggested me.

BDF: When you went on Forged in Fire, had you seen the show then?

DC: I actually did not have the History Channel, personally. When Iron and Fire came out, we had to watch it at my parent's house! But my dad was a big fan of Forged in Fire, and he had been telling me that I should compete, so when somebody reached out to me, I took the opportunity. I had not seen many episodes, though. I saw the one my friend was on and some random ones that my dad would tell me to watch when I stopped by, but that was it.

BDF: Were there any challenges or anything you were worried about?

DC: I was not worried about what they would tell me to build. My main concern was that I've always worked with a coal forge, not a gas forge. I was worried it would be difficult to get used to, and I was concerned that the forge welding color might differ. Smaller details like that make a difference. I would say the biggest challenge filming the show itself was that it was amazingly hot in that studio. Three gas forges running in a metal building with all the doors closed—it was extremely hot.

“Most of it was hurry up and wait. ”

A lot of it was a waiting game. We got to get there and got signed in and met the judges, and then waited until they got everything ready for our first challenge. That would last an hour, and then we waited until everything was cleaned up from that challenge and was set up for the next round. Most of it was hurry up and wait.

BDF: Did you get to interact with the judges much?

DC: Not much at all outside of the actual contest. David Baker was one of my favorites. He was hanging out in the shadows and talking to us or would look over our shoulders. He was just a likable guy. Doug Marcaida was the sincerest person. Very kind. Everything he said was to build you up. I didn't interact with any of the others very much.

BDF: Would you go on again if they called you back for any reason?

DC: Maybe. It would all depend on what it was. I lost on a technicality and didn't necessarily agree with the judges, but I won't argue with them. At the end of the day, it is what it is. I walked away, proud that my blade performed well, even though the judges didn't pick it. I didn't have any warpage or breakage.

The Casey’s Current Exploits

BDF: What have you been up to recently? Anything you want to catch everyone up on?

DC: The most recent, exciting news in my bladesmithing career is that about a year ago, I was contacted by the Historic Arkansas Museum in Little Rock, Arkansas. They commissioned me to build a blade for a permanent display which will be featured as the future of blade smithing in Arkansas. We recently had the grand opening of the knife gallery at the museum, and I'm just super proud to be recognized by my state. Usually, only Mastersmiths recognized by the American Bladesmith Association are commissioned for museum replicas. I am the first non-ABS bladesmith they have ever ordered anything from. That, to me, was a huge compliment.

BDF: Congratulations! That's awesome.

DC: Thank you so much! I'm so humbled and honored. Something cool about it is I built this like a 14-inch feather Damascus dagger with sterling silver guard and oak barrel handle and a raw Arkansas diamond inlaid on the handle. It has a sterling silver end cap with an engraving of a honeybee, an Apple Blossom, and my signature with some oak leaves. I delivered this knife to the museum, along with a custom scabbard that Chelsey had made for a knife. The coolest part was that I also took a knife I made when I was twelve. It looks like a prison shank. It was from a saw blade, and the handle is riveted on with all .22 shells. It has a rough copper guard. I took it along, showed the curator as a joke, and said, “Look how far we've come.” The curator said it was a cool evolution, and it's also now on display next to the big, beautiful blade I made for them. I hope it is a great encouragement to people just starting.

Daniel and Chelsey’s Advice to Aspiring Makers

BDF: Do you have any advice for those aspiring bladesmiths or gunsmiths?

DC: I don't want to dissuade anyone's dreams at all. But right now, the market is flooded with knife makers. That is the bottom line. We can thank Forged in Fire for that. But also, I think we're all sick of commercialism. We're sick of cheap, throwaway items and want something unique and created with love, passion, and skill. That said, don't be too quick to throw away your primary source of income if you decide to become a bladesmith. But if you do, strive for excellence. That's the bottom line. Never send something out the door that you won't be proud of tomorrow. If you aim for excellence, you ought to do all right.

“Right now, the market is flooded with knife makers. That is the bottom line.”

CC: I want to take the time to say how extremely proud I am of my husband, he is truly the hardest working man, the best dad, and my best friend. I cannot wait to see what happens next for him!

BDF: We are excited about that, too, Chelsey, and we will continue to watch both of you!

To see more from Daniel and Chelsey Casey, follow them on Facebook at Casey Arms, and be sure to check out their website caseyarms.com and Etsy shop, Casey Arms Armory.