Answering the Call: An Interview with Forged in Fire Champion Casey Cleveland

(Image credit: Casey Cleveland)

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Casey Cleveland first appeared on History’s Forged in Fire: Knife or Death before walking onto the Forged in Fire floor. After applying several times, he got the call to test his skills on the forge floor and ultimately walked away a Forged in Fire champion with his Jian sword.

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Casey is a full-time aircraft mechanic and a reservist in the United States Air Force but still finds time to teach classes and forge knives. He spoke to us about the impact his multiple History Channel appearances have had on his bladesmithing career. We also discuss his passion for teaching as well as his upcoming shop tour.

Casey’s introduction to forging

BRUTE de FORGE: How did you get into forging?

Casey Cleveland: Well, I hooked up with a group known as the Saltfork Craftsmen Artist-Blacksmith Association in Oklahoma. They're a group of bladesmiths and blacksmiths, and they host meetings. I went to one of their meetings, and the first one I went to happened to be hosted by a guy who makes knives. I enjoyed it and thought it was something I could do, so I tried it. It took off from there! I built a lot of my equipment, and that's how it all started; I happened to attend a local meeting.

BDF: Are you a full-time bladesmith?

CC: No. I'm an aircraft mechanic on base, and I'm also in the reserves. So, I work on base for my full-time job, and when I get time, I come home and work on knives until I get tired. Then I start the cycle of madness all over again!

BDF: Thank you for your service! How long have you been in the military?

CC: I enlisted at the end of 2008. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, though.

BDF: What is the name of your forge?

CC: Cleveland Knives. I used my last name and added ‘knives’ to keep it simple. It’s funny, though, because many people think I live in Cleveland (Ohio). I do not. It’s my last name. I live in Oklahoma.

Casey’s signature blade style

BDF: Do you have a signature style of blade?

CC: I used to only make EDCs (everyday carry). I have a couple here with me that I've made. I have one called the “Ravager”, which is like an up-swooped tonto. There is another that is a recurve, which I call the “Reaper Recurve”. Those are the two I'm trying to focus on being recognized for. I make all types of knives, though.

(Image credit: Casey Cleveland)

BDF: Did you have any training outside the blacksmith meetings you attended, or are you primarily self-taught?

CC: I am self-taught. I got to learn some stuff from local guys and then through meeting other bladesmiths. I will say that this community comes together to help every maker. There are really no secrets. If I see someone doing something and I ask them about it, they typically will give me a walkthrough on exactly how they did it. You don’t find that with many other groups.

“I will say that this community comes together to help every maker. There are really no secrets.”

Casey’s recent focus on teaching

BDF: Do you take customer orders?

CC: I used to take more custom orders. I haven't taken many over the past year—maybe once or twice. I've been teaching a lot of classes lately, so that has been my focus. With custom orders, you often have to dedicate a lot of time to that specific project, which gets stressful. Instead, I make what I want and sell it if I can. If I can’t, I donate the blade to local charities.

BDF: Looking through your Instagram, it seems like you offer classes regularly.

CC: I hold classes as often as I can.  I'm on military duty the first weekend of the month, and the second weekend, we open the shop up to the public. We invite everybody local to come out and work in the shop with us and have fun. Then, usually, on the third or fourth weekend of the month, I'm able to have a class.

(Image credit: Casey Cleveland)

BDF: Do you enjoy teaching?

CC: Yeah. I've been doing it since January of last year.

Everything I've ever done or learned myself, I've somehow always gravitated towards teaching it to others. In the military, we have certain skills we have to learn. I've taught CPR, airfield driving, and all kinds of stuff with the military. Then, I taught martial arts.  Now I'm teaching knife making!

Teaching is not for everybody. I have found that it works best to instruct people to do what you want them to do and then mold that around what they're doing. Everybody learns differently.

BDF: What do you like about teaching?

CC: I have found teaching new people to be very beneficial. Some people are interested in knife making but don't want to bother with equipment. They just want to make a knife. It’s an experience that they might not necessarily be able to afford outside of a classroom setting. Buying the forge, the grinder, the hammers, and the anvils is expensive, and some people just want to come and make a knife! But some people will take that class and come back every month to work on their skills more and more. So, just seeing the community grow is something that I enjoy.

BDF: What kind of classes do you teach?

CC: We typically start with a seven-and-a-half-inch billet of steel and go through all the safety briefs. Then, (they) learn how to move the steel and forge it to a rough shape. I introduce students to grinders, and they will grind on them until their blade gets a good profile before we heat treat them. If it’s a two-day class, we work on putting the handles on and shaping them. When it’s over, everyone leaves with a knife that they made. I've taught about fifty students so far. I'll usually take one to four students per class.

“Some people will take that class and come back every month to work on their skills more and more. So, just seeing the community grow is something that I enjoy.”

The first big class I did was five students, and they were all military guys. It was cool, but it was hectic. I would walk from one person to the next, giving small instructions. I learned that smaller classes are better.  

BDF: What is it about forging and knife-making that kind of keeps you drawn to it?

CC: The creativity of it. I mean, we're not reinventing the wheel. It's all been done before, but occasionally, we see a new little nugget that someone comes up with, which is really cool! But at the end of the day, it's still a knife, and putting your skill set to use to make it is attractive to me. We are all just trying to push ourselves.

Casey’s current projects

BDF: Do you have any big projects that you've been working on lately?

(Image credit: Casey Cleveland)

CC: We've got a shop tour coming up on September 16th. Yeah, September 16. The Oklahoma Knife Group is a collection of bladesmiths in Oklahoma, and they asked us to open the shop up and do a shop tour. We are going to have local makers doing demos. One guy is going to be forging, and one is going to be making sheaths. Everyone will be able to come out and have a fun day. So, we've been getting the shop ready for that.

As far as blades, I was working on a sword today. I took a customer who wanted a sword and said I’d make them one. The last one I made was pretty expensive. It won Forged in Fire, so it was basically a ten-thousand-dollar sword! But the way I do these orders is that I make the blade, and if they like it, they buy it. If they don’t, it’s no big deal; I’ll do something else with it. This way, it is less of a business and more of a fun hobby. It’s less stressful, as well. I won’t have people pounding at my door asking when it will get done. 

BDF: So, is this your second sword that you're making?

CC: Yeah, so I made the Jian and a couple of others—as practice—before Forged in Fire. This is the first sword I'm actually making for somebody. I really don't do swords. It's so much work! Especially if you don’t have a customer lined up.

Casey’s History Channel Double Duty

BDF: You were on both Knife or Death and Forged in Fire, correct?

(Image credit: Casey Cleveland)

CC: Yes, I was on the first season of Knife or Death. I had been applying for Forged in Fire before being on Knife or Death, but I had not gotten on. One day, this message popped up on Facebook: "Hey, we're starting a new show.” I sent him a message that I was interested.

Knife or Death is affiliated with Forged in Fire, so they had a similar list of criteria. For the first season, they wanted people who either had an old, antique, family-owned sword or a martial artist/bladesmith. Obviously, they wanted people who could make their own blades, but mainly, the sword couldn’t be store-bought. It had to be handmade or a family heirloom. One of the guys I was on the show with had a one-hundred-year-old sword. I made something to take and had a lot of fun.

BDF: Did they give you any inkling as to what you would be doing?

CC: All they said was that we needed a ten-inch blade. That was all. Literally, on the day of the competition, they took us through the course, and we got to see it for the first time.

“You have to go in there and do what you know how to do. I focused on what I knew I could do.”

The contestants in season two could better strategize because they got to watch season one. We didn't know what was going to happen. Had I known, I would have made a two-handed short sword or something. I could have made it through the entire course and cut everything up. My blade survived; I just didn't do it fast enough. I had the correct parameters; it was ten inches, but I had a small, one-handed blade, and I got exhausted!

BDF: Did that lead you to compete on Forged in Fire?

CC: I did Knife or Death in 2018 and reapplied for Forged in Fire in 2019. I was in Hawaii when I got the email. I wanted to test my skills. I'm just a guy who likes to make knives and go crazy, so I was excited to be able to appear on the show finally.

BDF: Were you surprised that your challenge was a Frankenstein knife?

CC: Yeah, that threw me for a loop because I don't remember seeing them do that before. If they did, I had missed that episode. I knew I wanted a cutting blade, so I was playing towards J. Nielsen's bowie style and Doug’s karambit. Like I said, I was there to have fun.

BDF: You seemed very confident, though! You didn’t seem to doubt yourself at any point.

(Image credit: History)

CC: I was confident. No one is walking into this show without having some knifemaking knowledge.  You have to go in there and do what you know how to do. I focused on what I knew I could do.

I'm a martial artist. I study edge weapons self-defense, and I'm a country boy. I’ve hunted and fished my entire life. I know what a knife needs to do and how it needs to function and operate in the hand. I just took those skill sets and put them into practice. It worked out. I didn't have anything explode on national television!

BDF: I would say it worked out well. You went on to win!

CC: Yes! I did do a little bit of investigating into my competitors. After we all met the first night, I looked them up on Facebook in my hotel room. I knew it would be a good competition after seeing their work.

The benefits of being a Forged in Fire champion

BDF: Do you feel like the show benefited you at the end of the day?

CC: Oh, definitely. You get a social media following, and people get interested in your work. Any publicity is good publicity, and both my experiences on television have been great. It's a good community. All the contestants get to talk with all the judges, and we keep in contact with other competitors. My group has all gone out and done great things. Ryan (Brodbeck) and Vince (Molina) created Brodbeck Ironworks, and Shawn (Moulenbelt) has his knife stuff, and he's doing classes. He just had his “Rendezvous” a few weeks ago. We've all benefited very well from our appearance.

BDF: You mentioned that you study edged weapons martial arts. How did you get into that?

CC: I studied Goju Ryu Karate in the past, as well as Muhsin Kan Aiki Jujitsu for many years. The only people allowed in the edged weapons class are black belts, military personnel, and police. What we learn is not for competition. We don’t learn how to ‘score points.’ It is a skill used to save your life if someone's trying to attack you with a knife or a large weapon. It is a different kind of training. I guess you would call it mortal combat. Basically, it is what you need to learn to save your life, not to win a fight. The metal you earn is your life!

Casey’s advice to aspiring bladesmiths

BDF: Do you have any advice for aspiring bladesmiths?

CC: Well, starting out on your own is always stressful and full of failures. But you can make it happen. My advice is to try to find someone to work with. There may be someone local you can meet with and see if they'll let you work in their shop, or there's someone teaching classes. Definitely take a class. If you're in Oklahoma, give me a holler!

“Starting out on your own is always stressful and full of failures. But you can make it happen.”

That’s the best advice I can give someone: take a class. Learn the basics, the fundamentals, learn about the hammers, and all of that. It’s fun making a knife, and it’s fun helping people make their first knife. 

BDF: Is there anything readers should watch out for involved Cleveland Knives?

CC: Hit us up for the shop tour on September 16th! Remember, I’m in Oklahoma, not Cleveland! It’s free to the public. In general, people can check out my page. Unless something comes up, we usually have an open house on the second Saturday of every month.

To see more from Casey Cleveland and Cleveland Knives, follow his Instagram @cleveland_knives and check out his Facebook page ­­­­Cleveland Knives. If you’d like more information on Casey’s open house, upcoming shop tour, or to sign up for a class, check out his site.

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