A Chat with Ryan Brodbeck and Vince Molina of Brodbeck Ironworks

Ryan Brodbeck and Vince Molina first met while filming their episode of Forged in Fire. While neither took home the title of “Forged in Fire Champion”, they walked away with something much more important. Little did they know that they would go from competitors on the forge floor to business partners. Today, Ryan and Vince are the owners and operators of Brodbeck Ironworks. While it began as an idea born of necessity, their Brodbeck Grinder has changed the game for bladesmiths everywhere.

RELATED: WHERE TO STREAM AND WATCH FORGED IN FIRE

We sat down with Vince and Ryan to talk about their time together, Brodbeck Ironworks, and the forging community.

A skill born out of necessity

BRUTE de FORGE: How did each of you get into forging and bladesmithing?

Vince: Well, I’m an outdoorsman. I fish and hunt, and about nine years ago, I wanted a custom knife set for all my outdoor needs. I started looking around to see what it would cost, and it was a lot of money for me at the time. I had worked in machine shops and prototype shops, and I was like, ‘well, how hard can it be, right?’ I already knew how to use most of the tools. So, I made my first knife that way and got hooked. I really enjoyed it. Then, I posted it on Facebook, and one of my best friends, who was getting married, asked me if I would make him a knife for his best man. So, I posted another photo, and I have basically been making knives ever since.

Ryan: Growing up, we'd go to Rendezvous, where we would see a lot of handmade items. There are blacksmiths there as well, making different hooks and fire pokers and all that kind of stuff. That's what sparked my interest. Then, right after college, I decided to get back into things, and I was in the same boat as Vince; I wanted to get a nice knife but didn't want to pay for it. I was confident that I could figure out how to make one, and thousands of dollars in equipment later, I got my knife!

Vince: That's the truth! I probably have about forty grand spent on my shop. It probably would have been cheaper to buy that three-hundred-dollar knife.

Finding their own styles

BDF: Don’t look at it that way! Think about how far you've come, right? Do you have certain forging styles when you make your blades?

Ryan: My style takes a lot of influence from the people that have taught me. That's where most of it comes from. But I like to make anything and everything. I don't stick to one thing.

Vince: I would say that I started making everything and whatever people would ask me to make. I think I've developed my own style within that. For a while, I didn't think I had a style, but a lot of people, my friends in particular, say they can pick my knife out of the lineup based on how my handles are and the heel of the knife. I've been on an integral bolster chef knife craze recently. I've been making a lot of those and enjoying those a lot. I do make a lot of different style knives, but there are certain things that I do a certain way that shows my style.

BDF: Do you consider yourselves primarily self-taught, or have you taken classes?

Ryan: So, through the grinder company, we have made a lot of connections. I was completely self-taught, even before I met Vince while competing on Forged in Fire. Then, from there, we've been very fortunate to rub elbows with some of the top knife-makers in the world and hang out with them and learn. Guys like Salem Straub, J. Nielsen, and Jason Knight. It's nice to know those people, ask questions about their work, and continue learning. A lot of those guys are more than willing to help anybody. They get random people messaging them on Instagram all the time, and I hear people say, “I messaged them, and they got back to me! It's so cool!” It's an awesome community. Most people are willing to help you out and teach you. I would say there are many things I have learned from Vince, though, honestly. We work together more, and the only time I get to forge is when I'm at his house!

RELATED: EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH MASTER BLADESMITH JASON KNIGHT

Vince: That's true! We get to forge less now since we started Brodbeck Ironworks. Sometimes we go back and forth about whether that's a good thing. Again, I used to fish and hunt all the time. This will be the first year in about twenty-five years that I haven't harvested a deer. We have just been swamped with work and with the business.

I am the same as Ryan. I was self-taught, and I remember when we went and spent four days with Salem Straub; I learned more in those four days than in my last seven years! The man is an incredible wealth of knowledge. The same thing happened when we went to Jason Knight’s place. We learned so much about integral knives and just little subtleties in the process that saves you a tremendous amount of time. We've been extremely fortunate; there’s no question.

A special community

BDF: It amazes me that it’s such a large community, and you all seem to know each other!

Ryan: Oh, yeah. I saw you interviewed the Lyddanes! They're good friends of mine; they live two hours from me.

RELATED: A CONVERSATION WITH JODY AND JENNIFER LYDDANE OF JL FORGE

BDF: Yes, they mentioned that I should talk with you, and I told them you were on my list! A prime example of what I mean. It is one of the closest communities I've been involved with.

Vince: Yes, it is incredible. I'm sure you're familiar with Jason Knight. His shop burned down, and we reached out to him, and we were like, “Hey, I know you're not sponsored by us, but if you need a grinder, let us know!” We want to see him back on his feet. And the entire community has been like that with him. We look after each other. It helps you regain your faith in people.

I think it is worth highlighting that when you get into knifemaking and forging, you're buying into a community. It is very different from anything else. With the forging community, there is such a sense of being a part of something bigger, which is so hard to find these days. That aspect of bladesmithing is something that most of the articles written do not focus enough on; the incredible community.

The journey to Forged in Fire

BDF: I've been amazed at the community. I talk about this with everyone I’ve spoken to, I think. I don’t forge or make knives, but everyone has been so open to talking to me about their bladesmithing journey. But you two didn’t know each other until you met on the set of Forged in Fire. How did you get on the show?

Vince: For me, it was funny. They found my Instagram, and they sent me a message. But I don't trust anybody. That’s just my nature. So, I didn’t believe it was them. And for about two or three weeks, I just let the message sit there. Then, I was hanging out with my buddy, and we had a few drinks—they call it liquid courage, you know—and I told him about it. He said, “Dude, you have to call them!” So, I said all right, what the hell and I messaged them back. I happen to have two other Forged in Fire contestants in the area, so I called them and said, “Hey, someone contacted me about the show, but it wasn't Forged in Fire. It was from another company.” They assured me that it was the right company, and that put me at peace. From there, I just followed the process. We had an interview, and they liked what they saw. They liked that there was a little bit of a story behind it. They asked me for a sample knife and to show samples of my work. Eventually, they called to have me on the show.

Ryan: I actually applied nine months after I started making knives and didn't hear anything back. I wasn't expecting to, but I thought, why not give it a shot? Then, the following year, I ended up applying again, and that time I got on the show. The second time around was when I started developing the Brodbeck Grinder, and I was like, “Well, I don't know if I'll do well on the show, but I might meet some people and be able to promote it. Maybe even sell a couple of grinders.” Little did I know I would end up meeting my business partner, and it would blow up into the business it has become.

RELATED: EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH FORGED IN FIRE JUDGE AND UNDEFEATED CHAMPION BEN ABBOTT

BDF: Were you surprised by anything about the show? Any behind-the-scenes experiences that surprised you?

Vince: Two things were surprising to me. One was the amount of footage they shot. By the end of the show, I had six or eight hours' worth of interview footage. Plus, everything was filmed of us forging and doing our thing. So, I was surprised by how much footage they condensed into a forty-five-minute show.

The other thing I was floored by was how helpful and cool the judges were.

Ryan: Yes, I totally agree.

Vince: None of them had a chip on their shoulder. They were all down to earth. J. Nielsen said, “If I can ever help you with anything, just let me know.” A lot of people say that, and almost no one ever follows through with it, but he did. We didn't know it at the time, but he's one of the reasons why we are where we are today.

BDF: Are you both still in touch with the judges, then? I guess with the business, you may be more in contact than most people.

Ryan: Oh, definitely, we talk with them often.

Vince: They all have our grinders in their personal shops. And they've purchased them. I think J. Nielsen has four, David Baker has one in his Connecticut shop and two at his home shop, and Ben Abbott has six in his shop and one at his house. So, we talked to them all the time. J. Nielson has stayed at my house, and I've stayed at his. We have hung out with David and Ben, as well. I would consider them friends.

RELATED: LET’S TALK SHOP WITH LEGENDARY WEAPONSMAKER DAVID BAKER

From hobby to profession

BDF: Let’s talk about these grinders. How did they come about? What’s the story behind them?

Ryan: They came out of necessity because I was broke. I couldn't afford a 2 x 72 grinder. I had worked for a place that did all kinds of laser cutting, and I was like, ‘You know, I'm just going to try to go off as many pictures as I can and figure out a design.” It took months of design and tinkering, but I got one together, and surprisingly, the first one worked well! I thought that maybe I could sell a few of them.

That is why I started creating it, though: I couldn't afford one. I decided to design my own. It helped that I had the background, software, and everything to do it.

BDF: You are an engineer by trade, correct?

Ryan: Yes, my degree is in Mechanical Engineering Technology.

BDF: So then, how did Vince get involved?

Vince: I'm a mechanical engineer as well, but I also have a Master's in business. But, if you're an engineer, particularly a mechanical engineer, anytime you buy anything, you look at it and say, “I could make this better.” I already owned a grinder, and I had owned another one before that, and I always got the same feeling—that it could be better.

I thought it would be a good business to get into, especially because most of the machines I've used have left a lot to be desired. Now, I often take a different approach to business. I am all about the business model and having a marketing strategy. I like figuring out market saturation, the angle, and all the business stuff. So, I had done a lot of that.

“We both filled the gap missing from each other’s plans, which worked extremely well.”

Then, when I met Ryan, he told me what he was doing and said he needed some money to get things started. He said he hadn't really done anything regarding the business other than getting the business registered and all of that. So, I pitched myself to him and told him to send me a grinder for me to look at. He sent me one, and I looked at it. We implemented some of the features I had thought of, so we redesigned a portion of it and blended the two designs. Then we put the business strategy into place and moved forward, and it took off! It was cool. We both filled the gap missing from each other’s plans, which worked extremely well.

BDF: It certainly did. They use them on the set of Forged in Fire now, correct? Did you ever imagine the idea would take off and become as big as it has?

Ryan: They have used them on the show since season nine. I would never have thought it would take off the way it has. Never. It was the most surreal thing when we took them back to the set, where Vince and I met. It was so cool. As we set everything up, one of the producers said, “All right, let's see what this thing can do.” So we set it up and were going over a couple of things, and I picked up a piece of steel and just cut it in half, right in front of him, with the grinder. Everybody, the whole set, just stopped and looked at us like, “Oh my gosh, did he just do that?” It was actually at the station where I was filmed for the show, too, so it was neat to stand right here a couple of years later. It was like I had come full circle.

“It was the most surreal thing when we took them back to the set, where Vince and I met.”

Vince: Yeah, it was interesting. Their tech said, “Okay, so does this machine use any springs?” We said no, and he asked us why. We said it was because all the springs in the other machines always pop and break. Then they asked if they would blow a fuse if someone pushed on them too hard. Again, we said no, and that was when Ryan grabbed a piece of steel and cut it in half. Ryan is not a small dude, and he just leaned into it like it owed him money! I actually have a short video and picture of the sparks flying everywhere. After it was over, that guy was like, “I think I'm going to be fired because there will be nothing for me to do.”

A cost-effective solution

BDF: You have touched on it a little bit, but what makes grinder by Brodbeck Ironworks different from the others? What makes them unique?

Vince: The most unique thing about our grinder is that it is a complete knifemaker shop in a single station. The attachments we have developed allow you to use the grinder as a surface grinder, which typically uses about four feet by two feet of space in your shop. It can turn into a disc sander, a buffing wheel, and a wire wheel. You have all the specialty attachments, like the integral bolster and fullering attachment. It allows you to make just about any knife you want in a two-foot by two-foot by three-foot footprint. If you're in a shop, the most expensive and reoccurring expense is square footage, and our grinders save you space. Plus, our attachments are cheaper than having dedicated pieces of equipment.

If you are in a school setting or teach classes, you can have a student walk up to the grinder and walk away with a finished knife.

From a safety standpoint and an economic standpoint, you can now turn your buffing wheel station and your disc sander station into student stations which makes it a lot more cost-effective to run your school.

“If you’re in a shop, the most expensive and reoccurring expense is square footage, and our grinders save you space.”

The only thing it doesn’t do is drill holes. But outside of that, you can make an entire knife—from a flat piece of steel to completely done—without ever walking away from the grinder. None of our competitors can say that.

Our price point is extremely competitive, as well. That is what makes us the most unique solution on the market. Then, on top of that, you employ a team of knife makers; even the guy that packs your boxes is a knife maker himself! Everybody in our business is a knife maker.

The product has been designed by two engineers with over thirty-five years of combined experience. We are also knife makers that understand the process and the needs. Then, we back it up with an excellent warranty and customer service. We pick up the phone in the evenings, we pick up the phone on the weekends, and we take care of our customers.

The interesting thing is that the machine is so versatile that we have silversmiths, jewelers, woodworkers, and metal sculptors that use it too. It has gone beyond just being a knife grinder because of all the different attachments. It's pretty awesome.

BDF: And this only started in 2019?

Vince: Yes, August 2019 is when we launched together.

Ryan: I started in August 2018.

Vince: Yeah, he was doing his thing, and we met in June 2019. By August, we pushed everything forward.

Words of wisdom

BDF: Do you guys have any advice for people thinking about getting into bladesmithing?

Ryan: So, one of the best pieces of advice I can give anybody who wants to get into any hobby is to take a class first. Find somebody that knows what they're doing, or at least looks like they know what they're doing, so that you can see the process and understand what you are getting into. Mareko Maumasi gave really good advice, specifically for knife making, and that was to get a good grinder first. Don't worry about a forge, an anvil, or anything like that. Get good at grinding first because regardless of what you're going to do, you still have to grind that knife when you're done forging it. So, if you're good at grinding first, learn forging. That way, you're not learning two brand-new skills at one time.

“Get good at grinding first because regardless of what you’re going to do, you still have to grind that knife when you’re done forging it.”

Vince: You know, it is funny, people call us about our grinders all the time, and we end up talking about forging and knifemaking and giving people tips and helping them out.

Ryan: We even talk to them about small business stuff! We’ve helped some people with that as well.

Vince: I've spent hours giving away free business advice. We spend a lot of time helping the community in any way we can. The advice I give them all the time is to go to the local scrap yard and get yourself a whole bunch of mild steel. Then go and make fifty knives. Forge them, grind them, and throw them in the trash! Don’t worry about finishing it, don't worry about fit, forge the knives and throw them in the trash, and do it again and again and again. That's going to develop your muscle memory, and it will get you making good knives faster than if you're trying to complete knives from beginning to end.

Ryan: There are a lot of little steps involved in making a knife.

“We spend a lot of time helping the community in any way we can. ”

Vince: Yeah, just developing muscle memory and learning how to use your tools is important. I think that will advance somebody a lot faster.

Ryan: I have had a lot of hours on our machine, so I have a good feel for it. I can walk up to it, turn it on full blast, and go, and I’m all right. But I've seen people’s jaws drop because I lean into it so hard. And when they ask how I can do that, I say that it is a feeling thing. You just have to get a feel for it to know how hard to push and where to push to get the results that you want. It comes back to muscle memory.

Vince: I'm at the point where I can grind a knife and have it ready for heat treat in about fifteen minutes, and I can finish grinding a knife in about thirty. It just comes from doing it over and over again.

Advice for aspiring entrepreneurs

BDF: Do you have any advice for entrepreneurs that may be thinking about starting a business?

Vince: Build a cost model first. I think people out there get excited about “the thing,” but they don't understand how much it costs, how much they can sell it for, how much the market is willing to pay, or what the demographics will be. I've spent a lot of time designing consumer products, which was something new for Ryan. Ryan was in the oil industry where they make a rig, and if it costs a million dollars to make, they sell it for ten million, and it doesn't matter. In consumer goods, you have to figure out how much people are willing to pay for it and work it backward.

Ryan: Yes, it was completely backward from some of the big business processes where they don’t care how much it costs as long as it works. That was definitely a mentality shift for me.

Vince: So, that's what I would suggest. Build your cost model first. Figure out how much time you'll have in it, how much it will cost to make, and how much you can sell it for. Then, figure out if it's worth it. Figure out how many you can make in a week, a day, or a month and whether that will be a viable business. If the numbers don't work, the company is not going to work. So that would be my advice.

Ryan: One thing I would add to that is to make sure that it's something you're willing to eat, sleep, and live by. Everything with this business consumes our life. It really does. Make sure you find time for your family because that's very important. Make sure you're ready to dive into it because it's tough to make it work if you're not 100% in.

Vince: Make sure the wife is 100% all in, too!

Ryan: And from personal experience, I would advise people not to try to do it while their wife is trying to get her Ph.D. It's very difficult. We also have three kids, so we're very, very busy people.

BDF: I imagine it must be crazy for you with all of that going on! You guys are doing fantastic, though; it was so good to chat with you and learn more about you and your product. I sincerely appreciate you both taking the time to chat with us today.

Ryan: We’re glad you reached out; we love talking about what we do and are passionate about.

Vince: Yes, thanks for including us and letting us tell our story!

To see more of Ryan Brodbeck and Vince Molina, you can follow them on Instagram and Facebook. Be sure to check out their grinders as well at www.brodbeckironworks.com!