Welcome to another conversation with one of the best bladesmiths in the world. This week we are speaking with Robert Shea of Apocalypse Forge. With appearances on Forged In Fire and Last Blade Standing, Robert is making a name for himself in the realm of post-apocalyptic weapons. Let’s jump into our conversation with Robert, presented by Plausible Reliability.

BDF: Robert, thank you so much for agreeing to sit and talk with us!

Robert Shea: I don't have problems talking, so I’m glad to be here!

BDF: Then let’s get right into it! Tell me how you got into forging and bladesmithing.

Robert Shea: I had just recently moved out here to the country, I stay in the country, but I'm really inside of a town out in the country. I'm an hour from anywhere! But we had just moved out here, and I had just started back to working in the mental health profession, and I needed something that wasn't sitting in front of a computer or playing video games all day. Those things aren’t very healthy, and I was beginning to get nice and plump. So, I needed to get out and do something. I had seen some videos about this TV show called Forged in Fire, and I started watching it with my wife. We usually have one TV show we only watch together, and that was what we picked.

One day I was like, you know what, why not? I could do something like that. I went out and started looking at stuff, and that was right about the time when I had tax returns from the previous year, so I had some money to play with. So I said I'll try it out! I looked into prices and bought some things to start. My wife looked at me and said, “are you sure you want to do this? Are you sure you want to spend all that money on something you probably won't want to do later? You don't know if you're going to enjoy this or not.” And it kind of turned into a big thing! Our two-car garage is no longer a garage; it’s a shop.

BDF: So, you work out of your home then?

Robert Shea: Yeah, I'm just in the back garage. Bare walls. That's why there's fur hanging up on it. It’s bare walls, and it gets cold. It's pretty chilly right now. Luckily, I set things on fire a lot!

BDF: How long have you been blade smithing?

Robert Shea: Three years now. I really have not been doing it very long. It was one of those things that just came about. There are things in our lives that you're going to find out you have an aptitude for. I've always been crafty. My grandfather ran a boot and tack shop. So, I grew up around leather workers and all that stuff, being in big shops with huge machinery. I grew up around it and drifted away from it because as kids, especially in my generation, it was like, hey, there are computers now, and I don’t know if I want to do what you’re doing.

BDF: Three years from starting out to then being on a television show. That’s not very long.

Robert Shea: Yeah, it was kind of crazy. I figured it would happen, though, just because of what I do for work—my real job.

BDF: What’s your “real” job?

Robert Shea: I'm a Mental Health Crisis Case Manager for kids. Little kids, like four and five-year-olds. I work in a crisis center that's also a head-start preschool. So that's what I do, which doesn’t necessarily come to mind when you think of a bladesmith, but it’s what I do.

BDF: That’s neat. I like hearing about what people do for a living outside of blacksmithing. I have found it to be quite a range of different things! 

Robert Shea: (laughing) Yes, let's go ahead and admit that my resume is not so much about making these things, but it helps that I have the job I have because it gives me some time to do this on the weekends.

BDF: I looked over your Instagram, and you have some unique and eye-catching things.

Robert Shea: I’ve been able to produce things that you’re not supposed to do, but that’s kind of what I go for. That’s my style. When somebody says to you, you’re not supposed to make a knife out of that, I’m like, well, that is what I’m going to do. I want to do that! Like this (holds up a blade), this was a wrench. I make a lot of things out of just odd items. I mean, behind me, I have a horseshoe on a knife. The horseshoe is the guard! I’ve used trailer hitches for pommels and other stuff like that. I go really crazy because it just makes me happy.

BDF: I have to ask, how did you come up with Safety Dolphin? Where did the idea come from? He’s brilliant!

Robert Shea: On TikTok, it’s well-known that people get banned all the time for silly stuff. It’s just the way their algorithm works. It’s their company, and they run how they want to run it. But bladesmiths, especially on that app, get banned, and things are removed a lot. And there was always a running joke about how everybody needs to be safe. But they also don’t tell you how you’re being unsafe. They just say you’re getting videos taken down because “you’re not safe.”

So, I was joking around—well, I was mad, actually—one day, and I’m like, ‘you know what, I’m just going to put safety stuff all over the dang screen.’ I wanted to make a video that was just safety things, and you’d barely see me in the video. I thought it’d be hilarious! When I started searching for things, one of the first things that popped up was a little clip of a dolphin wearing a life preserver. I thought that was so funny and said, ‘that’s what I’m using.’

It took off from there. People would start yelling at me, asking, ‘where’s Safety Dolphin?’ if I didn’t put it into a video. So, I put it in every video now. You have to have fun with it. Otherwise, what are we doing it for? That’s my motto.

BDF: Did you notice that you were banned less with the introduction of Safety Dolphin to your videos?

Robert Shea: Heck, no. (laughing)

There’s a nuance to it. My personal thoughts as to why I don’t get banned that much is that I don’t argue with people. There’s a big problem of people online just being mean to each other and constantly arguing with others. I don’t do that. I’d rather have a rational conversation about why I did something the way I did, and I think that helps a lot. You have to keep away from giving people reasons not to like you.

BDF: Let’s talk about the show a little bit. How did you go about getting on Forged in Fire? Did you have to apply? Did they reach out to you?

Robert Shea: I applied. I have a lot of friends that are in the business of making knives, and every year when the applications open up, everybody starts sending out all kinds of messages that applications are open and where to send them and all that. I thought about it for a while, and I went ahead and did it because I had friends that were asking me to.  I put in the application just for fun. Then I just walked away and forgot about it.

Then they contacted me and asked me to do an interview. I came home from work one day and did one out of the shop like we are doing now.

Funny story to go along with this. So, I was with Clay Unruh at Iron Born Forge—whom you guys already talked to—I was at his shop, and we were working on making some steel for a contest called “Last Blade Standing,” which is a show we do on TikTok. We were working on the steel for this contest together at his shop when he got the call from Forged in Fire asking him to go on the show. I’m right there, and he’s freaking out!  But it gave me an “in” because he was telling me the whole time when somebody would call and say this, or they would ask for an interview, or they would ask for these things. Since he was already into the process, he could say, ‘you’re probably only a couple of weeks out. Get ready!’ It was crazy.

BDF: He had mentioned to me that you were with him when he got the call!

Robert Shea: Yeah. Then it was like in a two or three weeks span, we got things finished, he got on the show, the next week they called me, and they said I was like a month out for filming. But then they called me three days later and said, ‘hey, can you go on in four days?’ I said, ‘well, I guess,’ I mean, how do you tell them no?

It was a whirlwind kind of thing! It’s still fuzzy in my head because it happened so fast.

Then getting ready to film was a lot of fun, with jetlag and that kind of stuff. I got on the plane, switched planes a couple of times, and got to LaGuardia, which, you know, living in the middle of rural Kansas and having to land at LaGuardia was an experience. Then I get into an Uber that drives me all the way out to Connecticut, and I go to sleep. I woke up the next morning and jumped right into 16 hours of filming. It was just a roller coaster.

BDF: Did you know that you would be on a supersized episode, or did they keep everything quiet?

Robert Shea: They do give you some hints on what you’re going to need to prepare for. They want to know that you’re least set up to handle and deal with what they might throw at you. They’re not giving you much information, just some hints. They don’t want anybody to show up and fall on their face. They want you to succeed, but they want you to struggle because they need to see both.

BDF: When you started filming and you were outside the studio, which right away is not typical, and they backed up that dump truck full of scrap, what was going through your mind?

Robert Shea: Well, we got there, and they said, ‘hey, we’re going to go outside now,” and it was already halfway through the day before we started doing anything. We walked out and stopped in front of this giant dump truck, and I was like, ‘I know what’s going on.’ I figured it out.

Robert Shea: I was like, ‘okay, that’s cool. I do this all the time. I dig through farmers’ iron piles all the time for junk!’ It was fun but also nerve-wracking. I told them on the show, and they didn’t use it because they can’t use everything in the interviews, but I told them this was actually the most frightening thing you could give me was something like that. And they said, ‘but you work with it every day.’ I said, ‘yeah, I work every day, so now imagine if I totally screw it up. There’s a lot of pressure!’ It’s not like someone who uses beautiful Damascus every day, and you’re telling them to use junk. When you look at me and say make it out of some junk, I better know something about what I’m doing, right?

BDF: Yeah, there are no excuses for you at that point! Was there anything you were worried about them throwing at you?

Robert Shea: There were a lot of things I was worried about. The most terrifying part of it all was the thought of being on camera and worrying about all the people around me watching me. When you have thirty people around you with cameras in your face, it can be distracting. I have a social anxiety disorder, so doing things like this at one point in my life would have been far too overwhelming for me. But my job has given me a lot of immersion into doing things that I would normally be terrified to do. Work has helped me deal with that. So, my main worry was if I would lose focus, but I held up pretty well!

Robert Shea: As far as what they were throwing at us, ironically, I did not want to do anything with canister Damascus, which is what I ended up trying to do. I’ve made canister Damascus, I’ve gotten it to work before, and I’ve made a few things, but I don’t have much experience with it. Add to that; there are a lot of things that I wouldn’t want to try on TV for the first time! They are very good about that, though, too. When you fill out the application, it has a questionnaire asking you how you would rate your proficiency in certain areas. My advice to anyone filling it out would be to be honest because they don’t want to set you up to fail. If you have never done a hidden tang knife, maybe don’t tell them you have.

BDF: Do you have any other advice for people going on the show?

Robert Shea: It will freak you out no matter what, but you need to remember that it’s the same thing you do every day. You’re just doing it somewhere else.

When we talked about this doing interview, there was one thing I was going to say for anybody else who’s looking to apply, and that is don’t go into it with an idea of what you’re going to do. Don’t go in thinking, ‘this is how I’m going to perform, and this is what it’s going to get me, and this is how it’s going to go.’ Don’t worry about any of that. Go in there and have fun! Enjoy it. It’s the blade makers Holy Land! Just go and have fun. You walk into the studio to nine seasons' worth of incredible blades, and they’re hanging on the wall right in front of you! Just enjoy that. That’d be my advice to anybody.

BDF: That’s excellent advice to keep in mind. You were able to overcome quite a few struggles in the forge.

Robert Shea: Yes. It goes back to the fact that they want us to succeed, but they want to struggle, so they intentionally put things in your way that you have to overcome. You have to just be calm and take them. There was nothing in that pile that I wanted to work with. There was nothing there that I wanted. A couple of the other guys got two things I would have liked to work with, but I said, you know, have fun with it and don’t sweat it.

Robert Shea: It was enjoyable and stressful. And if you’re going to do it, just accept that somebody has to fall on their face once in an episode, and the odds are pretty good that it’s going to be you. It’s at least one in four! So just be prepared. And that was my thing; I was prepared for that. I really think the only reason I came through that second round was that I was mentally prepared for anything to happen. I knew there was a good chance it was not going to weld up.  The chain was nasty; I didn’t have the time to clean it the way I normally would have because that thing was so old. I would have normally spent a day or two on it to get all that stuff off before I would ever try to use it. So I knew there was that chance. I probably should have stuck with that drill bit in the first place. I told myself that at 90 minutes, if I’m not sure this canister is worth it, I’m going to drop it, and I’m just going to throw that drill bit in and make something fast.  I normally work kind of fast because I don’t have a lot of time in the shop. If I'm lucky, I get twenty hours in the shop per week, so I don’t have time a lot. I’m used to the fast pace of it anyway. Now, I’m not like James. He was literally sprinting around. I’m a little too old for that.

BDF: Did you enjoy it overall? Would you go back if they asked you?

Robert Shea: I’d go back, yes. It was a blast. I wish they would’ve had me talk less about my beard and the funny things I have said to my wife, but I’ll take it! Even If I’m called in for comic relief, I’ll do that. It was fun!

BDF: Are there any behind-the-scenes tidbits that you would want to share? Anything that surprised you that readers might enjoy?

Robert Shea: Oh, the thing that will surprise you if you go on the show is that the set does not look like you expect it to! It’s crammed into a residential neighborhood. It’s not the kind of building you would think it was. It’s a cool operation.

I loved it because it was like a mercenary operation. I come from a stagecraft background. I was a drama major, and I liked to build sets and things like that. And, so, I just loved it because it was, like, the things they are able to do with the space they have is incredible. TV makes it look so big, but you get there, and it’s not what you expect.

And inside it is so dark! That’s the weird thing, because of how they’re filming everything, it’s just so dark. But, most of us do work in sort of a darker environment.

BDF: Did you get to interact with the judges much?

We were actually kept at a distance. Every time you move between places on set, they have a handler with you that announces when you’re walking through. So there was no interaction with the judges until after we were done.

BDF: Do you have a particular bladesmith that inspires you or you admire?

Robert Shea: I admire all of them! I admire everyone. My favorite people to talk to and to watch and interact with are usually the ones who are just starting. That part of the journey was exciting to me. That was the part I loved about it.  I made a series of videos talking about that, and I really need to repost it for YouTube because I show people how you can make a forge for twenty to twenty-five dollars. It’s a hole in the ground that will melt metal. That’s how I started. I bought all the stuff, but before it came, I couldn’t wait. I used a hairdryer, a hole in the ground, and charcoal, and I started making stuff with that before the forge arrived. 

I love watching new people starting or people doing things that are off the wall that you’re not supposed to do. I like watching people make fancy, amazing mosaic Damascus patterns and everything, too, but I lean more toward the older style.

The people I look up to are normally blacksmiths, not bladesmiths. John Switzer at Black Bear Forge, for example. It’s all blacksmithing because that’s the kind of stuff I thought I would do. Little twisted things and making cool handles, I thought that would be awesome. Then I started making some things, and it became a business.

Have you noticed an uptick in business yet since the show aired?

Robert Shea: No, not really. But then again, it’s hard to gauge for me. I’ve noticed an uptick in people who are really, really, really excited about buying something from me.

The community I sell to is people who are really into post-apocalyptic things. That’s what I make. It’s a different crowd than most.

The main thing I started doing was railroad spike knives. I made them pretty fast and cheap. I'm not trying to brag, but for a while, I was top three Google searches if you searched for a railroad spike knife. Guarantee you’re going to see mine. Last September, I made and sold 119 of them in one month. It was a record. I make a lot of those. Typically there will be, like, thirty or so of them on the bench behind me in different levels of finish. I’m a nut when it comes to that. I am trying to get away from that, though, and do some of the things I’ve always wanted to do. The bigger knives and swords are the things that I’m trying to switch more to.

BDF: When you embarked on this journey, did you intend to get into the post-apocalyptic niche, or did that style just happen for you?

Robert Shea: Initially, like you said, it just happened. It was kind of organic because, well, I’m cheap. Frugal! Sorry, I’m not cheap. I’m frugal. I bought some steel when I first started, I purchased some 1095 steel, very good steel, and it sat there for almost two years before I used it. Mainly because it’s tough for me, from the anxiety standpoint, to take something like that, that I’ve spent money on, that has an intrinsic value, and have to create something out of it that is equal to the amount of which I spent on it. So, it has to be special, and if you’re not good enough to make the special stuff yet, you have to make something else first.

That’s where the whole post-apocalyptic thing came from. I was using all scrap metal because it was all I allowed myself to use until I was “good enough” to use the expensive stuff. The next thing you know, things come out looking badass, and, yeah, I could fix it, but I think I’m going leave it that way. Then I started intentionally doing things that way.  I have seven or eight hammers made specifically to make other things look nasty. Special hammers I made to give the kind of rough, and worn texture, so it just looks like it’s been hammered to heck.

It just came out of that and took off as a business. That’s another thing for anybody trying to get into something like this; always find a niche if you want to make money at it. You have got to find your niche and what will fit you.

I could have started making railroad spike knives like everybody else and charged $60 for them. But I said you know what, I’m going to make something, and I’m going price it for what it’s worth because I’m just starting. You’re paying me to practice! I started with that, and the next thing I knew, I built up a clientele and a following. I’m still getting new hits and visits to the website. I sold those railroad spike knives that cheap because they brought me 250 people daily to a website. That’s free advertising. So, find yourself a niche. This one fell into my lap, nobody was really making it, and here I am.

BDF: Do you have advice for those bladesmiths who are just beginning their journey?

It’s about passion. Find something you’re passionate about and that will carry you anywhere. If somebody is interested in knife making, the first thing I’m going to tell them is to study blacksmiths. Learn how they move metal and how they get it to go in certain directions and how they get these things to bend here and not there. Learn those things because they will take you farther than anything else. If you want to get into the forging aspect of smithing, watch blacksmiths because that will be the coolest thing you’ll ever learn. For example, how to take a giant drill bit and turn it into a huge knife! That’s where that came from. That was from watching blacksmiths.

Learn hammer techniques and all that stuff first because it’s going to save you so much time, and it’s going to save your elbows. Many people go out there and don’t follow some of those rules and don’t understand the impact of anvil height. That stuff is very important because if you do it wrong for too long, it will hurt over time.

BDF: That’s a great insight. Thank you so much for sitting down with me and sharing your knowledge and experiences, Robert. I appreciate it!

Robert Shea: No problem, this has been fun! Thank you for having me! Oh, by the way, “Last Blade Standing” is huge this year, it’s like sixty blade smiths, and Ben Abbott is on it! Make sure you check it out.

If you want to see more of Robert’s work, follow him on Facebook and on Instagram at @apocalypseforge. You can also visit his Etsy shop here.

Special thanks to the folks at Plausible Reliability for sponsoring this conversation with bladesmith Robert Shea. Plausible Reliability is the #1 website devoted entirely to movie and television theories. Do you ever find yourself wondering what’s next for your favorite pop culture series? The team at Plausible Reliability mixes an expert knowledge of pop culture with a love for classic characters to give you the totally plausible plot points and casting announcements sure to come for our favorite franchises. Check them out at plausiblereliability.net, or on Twitter @hitplaus.

We’re always on the lookout for a good conversation. If you or anyone you know has been on Forged in Fire or Last Blade Standing and would like to sit down for an interview, please reach out to us on social media or email info@brutedeforge.com.

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