Two are Better than One: An Interview with CJ and MacKenzie Bodtker of Bodtker Ironworks
(Image credit: Bodtker Ironworks)
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CJ and MacKenzie Bodtker are the bladesmiths and artists of Bodtker Ironworks located in Owosso, Michigan. After watching Forged in Fire, this husband-and-wife duo were inspired to become knife makers and have been burning up the forge ever since.
As new parents to a beautiful eleven-week-old little girl, their schedule has been full as of late, so we were happy that CJ and MacKenzie could spare some time to talk about their forge, their efforts to raise funds for the National Pediatric Cancer Foundation, and why they are proud to be part of the bladesmithing community.
The Brodtker’s forging beginnings
BRUTE de FORGE: How did you both get into forging?
CJ Bodtker: Well, I got my first taste for forging about twenty years ago in Boy Scouts. When they explained it to us, they said we needed all this equipment, supplies, and other things. Being a fourteen-year-old then, I thought, ‘I can't afford any of this!’ So, at that point, I knew I wanted to try it one day.
I've always been interested in blades and metallurgy, but what got me to pursue it was Forged in Fire. When my wife and I were dating, we'd come home from work, make dinner, and watch Forged in Fire together. It was something that we'd bond over. We were watching it one night, and I said, “Honey, I want to start making my own knives. This looks like it would be a lot of fun.” And she said, “Okay, let's do it!” It took us about six months to get the basics and equipment together. Now, here we are, making a living off of it.
BDF: Did you have an interest before watching Forged in Fire, MacKenzie?
(Image credit: Bodtker Ironworks)
MacKenzie Bodtker: I had never forged or smithed before CJ started this venture three years ago. I had an interest. I had always enjoyed playing "knight" and slaying dragons in the backyard with a duct-taped hockey stick for a sword. So, naturally, I thought it would be cool to make my own, but having access and the time was a different story. I was heavily involved in school and athletics, so that consumed most of my time.
BDF: What did you think when CJ said he wanted to pursue bladesmithing?
MB: I was immediately on board when he mentioned wanting to get into making knives. At that point, we had moved in together and had been bonding over the show. It was clear to me it was a deep passion of his, and, for me, it was a huge interest. I thought it was a unique medium to express my artistic eye. We had a run of jobs that were less than ideal in many ways, so the idea of possibly being our own bosses was certainly appealing.
BDF: So, you're full-time bladesmiths?
CB: Yes, I've been full-time for almost fourteen months now. It's been a huge learning curve every step of the way. But, aside from being a father and husband, it is the most fulfilling work I've ever done.
CJ and MacKenzie’s path to the forge
BDF: What did you do before you decided to become a full-time bladesmith?
CB: Well, I've done a lot of different jobs, as almost everybody with ADHD can attest to. I've done everything from mosquito spraying to owning my own security company for a while to being a truck driver and furniture delivery. I've even been a welder. If there's a job out there that has anything to do with working with your hands, I've done it. I've even done stone masonry and landscaping.
My longest stint was five and a half years in the army. That worked well for me because, at least in Combat Arms in the Army, you're always doing something different. So, it helped ground me in a way because I was never bored from doing the same thing over and over again.
BDF: Thank you for your service, CJ! Would you say you are primarily self-taught as a bladesmith?
CB: Well, YouTube University is always a great asset. But I've talked with so many different smiths and knifemakers. That’s one of the things that's so wonderful about this community. Ninety to ninety-five percent of people want to see the trade continue and get passed on. So, even if they give you wrong information, it's not usually on purpose. There is a massive wealth of information out there, and all you have to do is reach out and ask for help. So, to say I'm self-taught in person, yes, I've never had an in-person teacher. But that doesn’t give credit to everybody who's given me advice along the way.
BDF: Is there one piece of advice you have been given that has helped you the most?
CB: Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. If you're trying to rush a project, it will never turn out as good as it could have been if you had just taken a minute to step away, take your mind off it for a moment, and then return to it. A rushed product is never satisfactory.
“If you’re trying to rush a project, it will never turn out as good as it could have been if you had just taken a minute to step away, take your mind off it for a moment, and then return to it.”
Another thing I love about the community is that, because this is very much hands-on work, where you have to be salt of the earth to get anywhere, it draws that kind of people to it. So, for the most part, you see such a lack of ego. You can message someone like Ben Abbott, and he will probably respond. I know people who have done that! Literally, world-famous bladesmiths will give you advice, and that's fantastic.
RELATED: EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH FORGED IN FIRE JUDGE BEN ABBOTT
BDF: Do you enjoy working side by side? What’s it like?
(Image credit: Bodtker Ironworks)
CB: Yes! MacKenzie has had to take the last year off due to pregnancy and caring for our eleven-week-old daughter. But before that, she was working right alongside me whenever she could. We were at the Michigan Renaissance Festival last year, and she was getting more attention than I was because people were like, “Oh, man, this badass chick is forging out knives and blacksmith art!”
Women definitely make up single-digit percentages in the smithing community, but the ones willing to put in that work are doing some awesome stuff. Two other examples are Chevy Clubberlang in Georgia and Jodi Anderson in Oregon. They both are doing incredible things and having a blast doing it. Check them out!
“Women definitely make up single-digit percentages in the smithing community, but the ones willing to put in that work are doing some awesome stuff. ”
MB: Like he said, I have regrettably not been able to participate as much as I would like to. Going forward, I know there will be times when we will be working on separate ventures because we have different tastes. In the past, CJ has asked me to pick out handle materials or had me help sand handles. Of course, if we need to come together to complete a task, we will. That is just part of the deal!
Early in our venture, there were some rough moments, but that was also earlier in our relationship. Different skill sets and learning styles can make it hard for anyone, much less a married couple who then go home to the same place after work. We've both grown, so I think it'll be smoother as we move forward.
That signature Bodtker style
BDF: Do you have a signature style?
(Image credit: Bodtker Ironworks)
CB: I like combining function and beauty. My personal everyday carry is one of my Bushcrafter linemen. It's one of those things where it's multipurpose. It doesn't have to be pretty, but the fact that it holds together no matter what I put it through speaks to me more than having a beautiful piece. I have done artistic pieces, but I don't do purely artistic pieces; they also have to be functional. So that's the closest thing I have to a signature style.
MB: Unfortunately, I have not had enough time to make many knives, so I can't say I have a signature style. When we were at the Michigan Renaissance Festival last year, I really enjoyed making blacksmith blades.
“I don’t do purely artistic pieces; they also have to be functional. So that’s the closest thing I have to a signature style.”
There are certain aesthetics I prefer. For example, I like the look of a stonewash. Truthfully, I feel that sometimes you find certain styles match better to the vision of whatever blade you are working on. I have blade concepts that need a mirror finish, while others need a blued look to complete the look.
Putting the “works” in Ironworks
BDF: Your forge is called Bodtker Ironworks. Do you make things other than blades?
CB: We do some blacksmith art as well. We make little heart pendants, fire pokers, and fire blow tubes that can be used to stoke a fire. We have also started delving into brass work to play around with that a little, so we will have brass bracelets, rings, and such. But we definitely focus more on blades rather than general blacksmithing. That being said, we do occasionally make wall hooks and all that. Recently, we started doing steel roses as well.
BDF: Do you have a favorite project that you have worked on?
CB: I really enjoy doing kitchen cutlery. I just finished up a six-piece chef set a couple of months ago that turned out way better than I thought it would. I could not believe I had done it when it was over. Immediately after I was done, I thought, ‘What can I do to improve it in the future?’
I do almost all the cooking in my house, so I make my kitchen cutlery based on what works well for me and how it would work for someone else. Using kitchen tools is like riding a bike; everybody has a slightly different movement to their body, so you have to factor in what works for everybody in general but also specialize it to each individual.
BDF: I can imagine that can be difficult.
CB: It can be. I've had people come into the shop so we can finish the general profile of the handle to fit their hand. That's gone over well. It comes down to whether you want the handles to have a sleek, straight look or have contours. It’s about getting each person exactly what they want so that it's comfortable for them to use and safe.
BDF: Do you offer classes at Bodtker Ironworks?
CB: We don't offer in-house classes because right now, our location is split between working out of my garage—which is mainly used for storage for show equipment—and then part of a pole barn that I rent out. Between both areas, the total is about six hundred square feet of workspace. So, it's not a safe environment to offer classes. Instead, what we do now—and I have to give full credit to Robby Bowman, who has been on Forged in Fire twice for this business model—we offer forging experiences under the “Forge a Memory” trademark. We have events that we go to so that people can come in and hammer out their own knife and get a leather sheath and everything with it. These experiences are for ages five and up. This past January, we had a couple of senior citizens come in and hammer out their own knives. They came in and hammered out their own masonry nail knives. Awesome. There are other people under the trademark as well.
The Bodtker’s charitable mission
BDF: Based on your social media, it looks like you do quite a bit for charity. Can you tell me about that?
(Image credit: Bodtker Ironworks)
CB: Charity and giving back have been part of my upbringing since I was a little kid. When I was in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, my family put a very strong emphasis on always doing what you can for others, even if you're not in the best position yourself. Even from a pragmatic standpoint, it comes back around. But, altruistically, you should help someone who needs it. It helps you go to bed at night with a clean conscience, knowing that you did something good for others because you don't know their situation. Charity work has always been close to my heart. I have to give a lot of credit to my parents because they taught me from a very early age how important it was.
BDF: I heard recently that you were doing something for the National Pediatric Cancer Foundation.
CB: Yes. My wife and I agreed to donate one percent of our gross earnings from the Michigan and Ohio Renaissance Festivals to the NPCF. In addition, through donations from other smiths, we have items on the table that, if purchased, one hundred percent of those proceeds will be donated to the NPCF. My wife and I will cover the credit card transaction fees for those particular items.
BDF: That's fantastic! And my understanding is that those are pretty big festivals.
CB: Yes. Both length of time and size. As far as foot traffic, I believe Michigan and Ohio are both top five in the country for the amount of foot traffic they receive. Thankfully, the management for both festivals has been completely on board with what we're doing.
RELATED: THE BLADESMITHING COMMUNITY RISES UP FOR A CAUSE
I want to say, regarding the Last Blade Standing stuff, it shows the type of community this is. So many people who aren't even involved in the competition are stepping up to help a good cause. There’s a knife maker here in Michigan named Chuck Pippen of Tribal Edge, who is a cancer survivor, and he has donated a blade to help raise money. He’s not on TikTok; I think he's only on Instagram and Facebook. There are a lot of other people who are doing the same thing, and it’s fantastic.
BDF: Do you have anything coming up that we should watch out for?
CB: Well, we have the Michigan and Ohio Renaissance festivals. We're super excited to be doing those. We just finished up the first week in Michigan, and starting Labor Day weekend, we have the Ohio Renaissance Festival. Those are pretty much the highlights of our year. They're by far the most significant events that we do.
As far as blades go, I'm in the design process of doing some Star Wars-themed blades. I even have some glow-in-the-dark wood that will be part of the Grogu blade, so watch out for those! I'm hoping to have them all done by the end of September.
The Bodtker duo’s advice to aspiring bladesmiths
BDF: Do you have any advice for aspiring bladesmiths?
CB: Make sure you're passionate about it and willing to devote whatever time you're comfortable committing to it. The process is much more enjoyable if you're honest about how much time you can put into it. I dive head-first into whatever I do, but for some people, they realize it is more of a hobby than anything else. Learn to be comfortable and happy with that. So don't expect to go into this being able to make a living off of it right away. I've been very fortunate in the opportunities that have come my way. I've been able to make this a full-time job two years into it, but many people wait five to ten years before it takes off. Remember, you're not any lesser because you aren't full-time. It's whatever you can do with it. Maybe it’s just how you get away from the rest of your life, and you end up being a proficient knifemaker and bladesmith.
“You’re not any lesser because you aren’t full-time. It’s whatever you can do with it. ”
MB: As for advice for an aspiring bladesmith, I don't think I have much ground to stand on. I feel like I'm technically still an aspiring bladesmith myself. I will say that if you have a passion, drive, and desire, you can make it happen. It helps to have a great support system—which we are grateful for—but if you don't, we have a wonderful community. CJ has grown immensely because our community has taken the time to answer his questions and give advice.
BDF: MacKenzie, do you have advice for women looking to break into the industry?
MB: Again, you can find a way if you have a desire and a passion. It helps to have a support system, but some families don't understand or can't see the finish line. I am not sure I would be where I am if it weren’t for CJ. It was his passion first, and I believe wholeheartedly that CJ would have made it here one way or another; I just helped push him. So again, if you have the passion and desire, you can make it happen.
To see more from CJ and MacKenzie, follow Bodtker Ironworks on Instagram @bodtkerironworks2020 or catch them on their Facebook Bodtker Ironworks. If you’d like to help support the National Pediatric Cancer Foundation, check out our previous article on the topic for more information.
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